Ministry News

Warren to Passive Christians: 'Find Another Church'

Details: Published on Tuesday, 25 May 2010 13:23; Written by Marcus Yoars

QUOTE: "Let me just be honest with you as somebody who loves you. If you passively just want to sit around in the next 10 years and just waste your life on things that won't last, you probably want to find another church because you're not going to really feel comfortable here. Because if you're in this church, I'm coming after you to be mobilized." —Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church in California and author of The Purpose-Driven Life, in his message from Sunday. [saddleback.com, 5/24/10]

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0 #16 Williamtells 2010-05-29 04:18

Responding to #13 Womanofworth06--See prosperity notes above. It isn't our prosperity that spreads the Gospel, but the work of the Holy Spirit through us as we make ourselves available. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills, so having the means isn't the problem. It's our hearts that's the problem. I could not/would not refer to Rick as an evil man. Jesus said "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters." We are all sinners, and are 'with' Him imperfectly. However, one who Pastors and preaches the Word has a much greater responsibility to absolute truth. He must know the Word of God and preach the Word of God always in Truth. There is no middle ground. There is no fence. We're either with Him or against Him. 98% of the ingredients in rat poison won't hurt you; it's the other 2% that will kill you. Luke 17:1-2 Be Blessed!

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+1 #15 Williamtells 2010-05-29 04:05

Responding to 12 QB--If you do a word search of 'prosperity' on www.biblegateway.com, you'll find 34 references. A majority of these are OT references and refer to agricultural prosperity, which of course was the economy of the day. Many of these references related to God promising prosperity based on obedience. In Philippians 4:12-13 Paul writes "I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity...I can do all things THROUGH HIM who strengthens me." So, in context it appears that prosperity is an act of God, not us. Acts 3:6, Matthew 19:23-26, Mark 10:17-22, Luke 6:24-25, seem to suggest that material prosperity of the sort common today can be more of a problem than a blessing. Finally, Matthew 7:13-23, Mark 4:18-19, Luke 10:3-12, Mark 6:7-11, Mark 13, Mark 16:15-16, and Luke 12:51-53 suggest that it is our dependance on Him, not our prosperity, that will allow the Gospel to spread "throughout all the earth". Be Blessed!

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0 #14 Williamtells 2010-05-29 03:50

Responding to #11 Womanofworth06--If you do a word search of tithe/tithing on www.biblegateway.com, you'll find only 6 references. All but two in the OT. (New Testament being where the 'church' was begun, which doesn't denigrate the Old Testament at all. Old or New, it's all the Word) Both NT references are in Hebrews, and refer back to the OT. Tithing was a command, but not a command leading to salvation. Acts 2:38 "Peter said to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins...' ". Along with many other similar references in the Word, this seems to be THE criteria, not tithing. Again I caution, Beware! "...rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you: 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far away from Me. But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men' " Matthew 15:7b-9. Be Blessed!

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0 #13 womanofworth06 2010-05-27 09:47

Hi QB,
There was soooo much more I could have said in response to the comment that started all this. I agree with you. The bible says the LOVE of money is the root of evil, not the money itself. How can we bless anyone else or further the work of the gospel if we are sitting around in abject poverty! Aside from all that, I have never heard Rick preach or read anything in his books to indicate he is greedy, evil, etc. and I still maintain he doesn't have to tithe 90 percent, but he does. I don't know what Rick Warren this gentleman was referring to....not the one I know of, but I decided to just let it go.

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0 #12 QB 2010-05-27 07:46

I don't understand the title prosperity teacher...isn't the whole bible about prospering your life...so what is this statement that I keep hearing about "prosperity" preachers being false prophets. Wasn't Jesus a "prosperity" preacher. What does that mean? A "prosperity" preacher. I sure wouldn't want to hear a "poverty" preacher.

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0 #11 womanofworth06 2010-05-27 03:43

Perhaps it's because I'm a writer and, therefore, enchanted by words, but I feel compelled to respond to your comment about the use of my word "overall." The pastor has been doing a lot of teaching on tithing recently, and I concur with what he says. The thing I don't like is that he does not allow people to be "partners" (members) in the church until he determines that they have consistently tithed for the six months it takes to become a new partner. He goes so far as to say if they aren't going to tithe, he will suggest another good bible-teaching church in the area. As I already mentioned, I believe tithing is a biblical command, but I feel that after he teaches on the matter, he should allow God to deal with their hearts. Is he going to take a poll and ask whose fornicating, etc? Of course not, so why should he be so adamant about the tithing issue? There is such a thing as over-shepherding, so that's my point about the "overall" thing.

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0 #10 Williamtells 2010-05-27 03:17

Well said! No man can serve as our source. Jesus is the head of the church, and there is no other. God places leadership, both spiritual and secular, and He removes them as well, according to His plan. I found it interesting that you used the wording "overall" in describing your Pastors teaching. To me the use of this word suggests that you are aware of inconsistancies in the teaching. Beware! On a side note, in my 50+ years the very best biblical exhortation I've ever heard is Alistair Begg @ TruthforLife.org. As much as I appreciate his biblical teaching, he's not my source either. Gods Word is the Sword of the Spirit, and it's a two edged sword, separating bone from sinew, truth from lies. Be Blessed!

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0 #9 womanofworth06 2010-05-27 01:47

Okay, William, fair enough. I don't personally attend Saddleback, but I have good friends who ,and I have visited. Let's face it, there is no perfect pastor anymore than there is any other perfect human. I attend another church in Southern California, and I could take exception to a few things even though I believe the pastor loves the Lord and, overall, offers sound teaching. In any event, it sounds like you are on the right track in trying to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit. I do suggest that reading Dangerous Surrender by Kaye Warren could be truly life changing.

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-1 #8 Williamtells 2010-05-26 02:32

Barbara. I understand your defense of the Warrens. However, having gone through '40 Days of Purpose', 'Purpose Driven Life' and 'Purpose Drive Church' in small group study, I have a problem with just how biblical Ricks approach is. Several years ago I lost my 'Life Application Bible' and had to purchase a new Bible. I had come to the place where I sought to purchase a Bible with no notes whatever. Not because I don't value the thoughts of men. I have an extensive library of books by John Stott, Yancy, Shaeffer, and many other authors. The reason was that I want to know the Word of God intimately from the perspective of the Holy Spirit. On a final note, whether one gives 10% or 40% of an average income or gives 90% of a very large income in a very publicly known way, the Bible states in numerous places that if an act of goodness is publically given and publicly praised, the public praise will be the only reward. Give with your right hand while your left hand has no knowledge.

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-1 #7 Buster 2010-05-26 02:24

@ Barbara Byrd - I wouldn't go around bragging on the Warren's "reverse tithing" without knowing all the facts. They have not always done this and only started after the huge financial success they received from The Purpose Driven Life book and it's associated teaching materials. It is easy to give from our abundance. Rick Warren proves this. Had he been "reverse tithing" before the success of his book then maybe I would have more respect for his generosity. But regardless, Rick Warren is a prosperity gospel teacher and a "false prophet" that the bible warns about. My prayer is that God will convict him and show him the error of his ways and then use his great influence to preach and teach the truth about our Savior.

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